dogon sirius debunked

found no evidence they knew Sirius was a double star or that Sirius B is 1995. Sagan further commented that he was surprised, given the freedom of viewpoint that Fish used, that her map didnt match the Hill map better!4. WebAlso there is the fact that they described the Nommo as fish people and you find all kinds of half man/half fish - serpent imagery all over the Mediterranean. The inspiration for this claim was a star map produced by Betty Hill while under hypnosis. Somehow, Temple and I have never gotten our disputes off on the right foot. MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. To penetrate this supposed disguise (which might not be a disguise at all, other classical scholars maintain), Temple resorts to ancient puns, to hidden meanings, to "garbled versions" which he must amend to fit the theory, to the exchange of consonants in innocent-looking words, to similar-sounding words from It blazes forth from the constellation of Canis Major (Big Dog), giving it the inevitable nickname of the Dog Star. In other words, the Dogon tribe would not only need the knowledge but also a telescope in order for them to have the information they already seemed to possess. interesting that the Greek Sirius is Seirios.". implausible notions such as the claim that the Dogon got their knowledge In other words, the Dogon tribe would not only need the knowledge but also a telescope in order for them to have the information they already seemed to possess. How did the Dogon obtain this knowledge? History Debunked then goes on to demonstrate the type of pseudo-scientific nonsense this has lead to by providing a link to an Ethnomathematics paper and reading out its conclusion. No other anthropologist supports their opinions. 6, "White Also, in the 1980s and 1990s, anthropologist Walter van Beek could find no evidence that the Dogon possessed knowledge about Sirius B today.9 But more enlightening is the fact that Griaule studied astronomy in Paris and brought star maps with him to Mali. Temple's book mentions the absorption of a Christ-figure into the traditional Dogon Pantheon, obviously a recent addition. mystery resurfaces. They know about the existence of the star Sirius B, a companion star to the brightest star in our sky, Sirius A. Temple's impressive research was encouraged by noted futurist Arthur C, Clarke (although Clarke now prefers the "modern influence" hypothesis). The Symbolism of the Tarot: The Minor Arcana, The Symbolism of the Tarot: The Major Arcana, My Reading with Kristine from Psychic Source Review, Get the best Psychic Reading Ever Best Psychics Ive Reviewed, The Cathars: the struggle for and of a new Church, The Strange Stone Discs of Baian-Kara-Ula, William Blake: What paintings of visions come. Webplanet earth. As the brightest star in the sky it was known and worshiped by ancient civilizations. <> that by the time Griaule arrived, the Dogon may have had a grounding in 20th Also if it was seeded by westerners how is the Dogon and surrounding tribes have a fully developed culture and religion structure centered around Sirius going back for hundreds of years? things. And finally, even if Sirius B had been a visible red giant a few thousand years ago, how would the Dogon know that Sirius B was still there after it became a white dwarf? [7] Others, such as Marcel Griaule's daughter Genevive Calame-Griaule and an anthropologist, Luc de Heusch, came to criticize Van Beek's dismissal as "political" and riddled with "unchecked speculation", demonstrating a general ignorance of Dogon esoteric tradition. This is strange, because one would think that it would be a major discovery in anthropology. WebThe star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. He points out that Griaule and Dieterlen stand alone in their claims about the Dogon secret knowledge. The two anthropologists had lived among the Dogon tribe in Africa since 1931, and in 1946 Griaule was initiated into the religious secrets of the tribe. Read Skeptic on Apple or Android devices, or on PC or Mac via PocketMags.com. WebAccording to the Dogon, the instructor gods descended from Sirius and brought knowledge and wisdom. Worse still, hundreds of thousands of years ago, Sirius B was a dying red giant. The brightest star in the sky is Sirius, now called Sirius A. In other words, the Dogon tribe would not only need the knowledge but also a telescope in order for them to have the information they already seemed to possess. But the extraterrestrial hypothesis will not fade away so easily. Also, why would the Dogan people not divulge where they received such recent knowledge of transfer if they had of gotten this knowledge from Europeans. But from whom? For instance, the anthropologist Walter Van Beek, who studied the Dogon after Griaule and Dieterlen, found no evidence that the Dogon considered Sirius to be a double star and/or that astronomy was particularly important in their belief system. the Dogon. WebRe: Dogon Sirius claim debunked - Graham Hancock Official Website Mysteries Taken from [ library.thinkquest.org] According to the Dogon priests, Sirius is orbited by a tiny secret star that they refer to as 'po', which traces an elliptical path around Sirius taking 50 years to I disagree wit deeee72. This is only a stellar stone's throw by galactic standards and Sirius is only twice as far away from our solar system as are the nearest According to Thomas Bullard, van Beek speculates that Griaule Carl Sagan agreed with Temple that the Dogon could not have acquired Also it would take a very good set of lenses to see Sirius B, which has an apparent magnitude of 8.44 and a separation from Sirius A of 10 arcseconds (0.3% of a 1 angle) under the best conditions. She claimed an alien starship commander had originally shown it to her. Using spherical trig, I got 612.3 km for the Siwa-Behdet leg and 654.8 km for the Thebes-Behdet. "There is some evidence," he points out, "that the Dogon like to frame pictures with an ellipse, and that Temple may be mistaken about the claim that in Dogon mythology the planets and Sirius-B move in elliptical orbits." He shows a total ignorance or disregard for almost every fact in my book, and there is hardly a single thing in his review which is remotely accurate." The third explanation is that they learned the information from Europeans or in European schools. Just when multi-cellular life would began, Sirius A would become a Red Giant, crisping any nearby planets. MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. hVt*f+"c2aC-w.EJ|@F[VXLV~oo>l B>xU.9y'nYnZ6aBlc3y&A%M]XME The Dogon myths may or may not be related to these other putties (or even to Kepler's supernova, which has been seriously suggested.) You guessed it -- Sirius! But here's the rub: there is no archaeological evidence that the specific references to the twin hidden companions of Sirius are anywhere near that old. Most important, no one, even within the circle WebThe claims about the Dogons' astronomical knowledge have also been challenged. Based on Carrolls website (skepdic.com), the Dictionary is the definitive short-answer debunking of nearly every thing skeptical. It has a mass of 2.35 times the mass of the Sun. The main problem with the alleged antiquity of the Dogon "Sirius secrets" legend is that they are reminiscent of European Sirius speculations of the late 1920s. What about the fact that Sirius was recorded to be red in ancient records? The "mystery" that is central to the book is how the Dogon allegedly acquired knowledge of Sirius B, the white dwarf companion star of Sirius A, invisible to the naked eye. Scientists learn that the Dogon do not possess secret knowledge about the star Sirius and its companions. WebDogon and the Sirius Mystery. Other Temple claims, including some wild assertions from The Secrets of the Great Pyramid, can as easily be checked and as easily demolished. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sirius_Mystery. WebRe: Dogon Sirius claim debunked - Graham Hancock Official Website Mysteries Taken from [ library.thinkquest.org] According to the Dogon priests, Sirius is orbited by a tiny secret star that they refer to as 'po', which traces an elliptical path around Sirius taking 50 years to He also gives public talks on astronomy and related fringe topics to international audiences. Copyright 19922023. Legends of the Dogon Belief in a Long-Solved Mystery Resurfaces. I assumed, reasonably I.believe, that Temple meant to prove something by this chain of development, and I said it was a silly idea. The biggest challenge to Griaule, however, came from anthropologist Walter Van Beek. But now, in another recent publication Ancient Mysteries by Peter James and Nick Thorpe this mystery is also uncloaked as a hoax or a lie perpetrated by Griaule. Indeed, in view of the Dogon fixation with Sirius it would surely be more surprising if they had not grafted on to their existing legend some new astronomical information gained from Europeans. It's almost certainly a hoax. In 1991, Van Beek led a team of anthropologists to Mali and declared that they found absolutely no trace of the detailed Sirius lore reported by the French anthropologists. In 1966, Temple then aged 21 became Secretary of Youngs Foundation for the Study of Consciousness. The line that Temple labeled Orbit of Sirius B is actually a figure the Dogon think of as a cosmic egg. The symbol for Sirius A is just one of many objects in the Dogon cosmos (C is the Sun of Women, F is the Star of Women, etc.). traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. To quote Ancient Mysteries: While Temple, following Griaule, assumes that to polo is the invisible star Sirius B, the Dogon themselves, as reported by Griaule, say something quite different. To quote the Dogon: When Digitaria (to polo) is close to Sirius, the latter becomes brighter; when it is at its most distant from Sirius, Digitaria gives off a twinkling effect, suggesting several stars to the observer. This description of a very visible effect causes James and Thorpe to wonder as anyone reading this should do whether to polo is therefore an ordinary star near Sirius, not an invisible companion, as Griaule and Temple suggest. It's fascinating. Why would Europeans feel compelled that they needed to discuss astronomy with such a primitive tribe and why would this transfer of knowledge that only lasted 5 weeks have such an impact on the Dogan people that they would include it in their cultural practices? In a recent book, The Once and Future Star (Hawthorn Books, 1977), George Michanowsky identifies "Oannes" as a Hellenized version of the Sumerian name Ea; he Our mysteries may be different but our questions are the same and we are no wiser. Zeta Reticuli 2 (with about the same temperature and mass as the Sun) is another candidate. This proves that geodetic surveys of immense accuracy were thus practiced in ancient Egypt with a knowledge of the earth as a spherical body in space and projections upon it envisaged as part of the Sirius lore.". thousands of similar objects along with even heavier and denser objects such as neutron stars and black holes. Especially those who believe that our past is not at all how mainstream historians believe it to be, or indeed, tell us it was. Modern astronomers have discovered the remains of the supernova Vela-X in a constellation which would have been visible in the low southern sky from Sumer. extraterrestrial visitors? If a European had visited the Dogon in the 1920's and 1930's, conversation would likely have turned to astronomical matters, including Sirius, the brightest star in the sky and the center of Dogon mythology. They all have one thing in common: enormous monsters. For instance, the anthropologist Walter Van Beek, who studied the Dogon after Griaule and Dieterlen, found no evidence that the Dogon considered Sirius to be a double star and/or that astronomy was particularly important in their belief system. Investigating of course, no evidence for this special eyesight, nor for other equally To recapitulate: Griaule claimed to have been initiated into the secret mysteries of the male Dogon, during which they allegedly told him of Sirius (sigu tolo in their language) and its two invisible companions. Unfortunately he neglects to mention other bas-reliefs which show "fish-deer" and "fish-lions" and which consequently suggest that the fish motif was symbolic, not descriptive. From the findings of Van Beek and the authors of Ancient Mysteries, it is clear that Griaule himself was responsible for the creation of a modern myth; one which, in retrospect, has created such an industry and near-religious belief that the scope and intensity of it can hardly be fathomed. He has written of Temples belief that present-day authorities are unwilling to set aside the blinkers of orthodoxy, unable to admit the validity of anything that lies outside their field or that offers a challenge to the status quo. Such criteria suggest that these periodic festivals have been going on for at least 600 years and possibly much longer. Skeptic. On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. The Skeptics Society is a non-profit, Sagan, Carl 1980. Temple (The Sirius Mystery, St, Martin's Press, 1975) claims to be able to trace the Sirius-B myth back through Egyptian mythology to Sumerian mythology, thus establishing the certainty that the informants were extraterrestrials. Another claim: that in Egypt the oasis of Siwa and the ancient Nile City of Thebes are both equidistant from the shrine city of Behdet, in the delta -- and the same exact distance, too. The Dogon and Sirius. So much for the Nommos. Y%gbsPFur[%X7Sz I have never completely understood Temple's complaint to "Astronomy" about my critiques: "I could not object to a review of a book which was fair, honest, or intelligent, no matter how critical or damning it might be of the opinions expressed in the book or the quality of work behind the book. Readers of Skeptic are not so sanguine. by Liam McDaid. According to the Dogon, the instructor gods descended from Sirius and brought knowledge and wisdom. Ideas originally published in 1948, reprint (Oxford University Press 1997). Legends of the Dogon Belief in a Long-Solved Mystery Resurfaces. Given that the French stayed in their territory for five weeks and had several local guides, it would not be surprising if they shared some astronomical knowledge during that time. The proof is supplied by (the Odyssey), where Helios is said to possess 7 herds of 50 cows each and 7 herds of 50 sheep, a transparent allegory of the days and nights of the year.") by Philip Coppens. As the brightest star in the sky it was known and worshiped by ancient civilizations. e issued monthly by the Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles. Conversations With WebNew evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation. Knowledge of the stars is not important Some surviving informants of Griaule who spoke to van Beek made it clear that the Dogon learned about Sirius B from him!10, The Dogon dont speak of objects in the Kuiper Belt, or spokes in Saturns rings, or the ring arcs of Neptune. extraterrestrials, the Nommos, some 5,000 years ago. WebRe: Dogon Sirius claim debunked - Graham Hancock Official Website Mysteries Taken from [ library.thinkquest.org] According to the Dogon priests, Sirius is orbited by a tiny secret star that they refer to as 'po', which traces an elliptical path around Sirius taking 50 years to There are no stable orbits around the less massive Sirius B which exceed three years. Temple does not argue that contact with an advanced civilization is the only way that the Dogon could have obtained what he understood to be accurate information on Sirius B, but he indicates that he personally finds the theory of alien contact more convincing. Here, then, is another datum to be investigated when it is possible." The Dogon Revisited They have a traditional belief in a heliocentric system and In his 1998 revised edition, Temple was quick to point out the new discussions in scientific circles about the possible existence of Sirius C, which seemed to make Griaules claims even more spectacular and accurate. He was told that fishlike creatures called the Nommo had come to Earth from Sirius to civilizes its people. century technological matters brought to them by visitors from other parts On top of that, there is another star, Sirius B, orbiting at an average distance of about 20 AU (1 AU is the distance between the Earth and Sun). theorizes that the myths may refer to a gigantic supernova. (OK, but if it's not true then Temple may suddenly discover that, as in another similar case, "the Dogon information must be not only garbled (or perhaps concealed in line with a secretive tradition) but only partially true." Could Sirius B have been a red giant a few thousand years ago? (2004). Tom Sever's "The Obsession with the Star Sirius," and editor Ron Oriti's "On Not Taking it Seriously." No such nebula is seen. Temple's book and the debates that followed its release publicized the existence of the Dogon tribe among many New Age followers and proponents of ancient astronaut theories. Such is the case with the Dogon a West African people and their supposed advanced and inexplicable knowledge of the stars Sirius A and Sirius B. Sirius A is the brightest star in our sky. Figure 1. Dogon people are renowned for their knowledge about the Sirius Star system which dates back to 3200 BC, long before scientists discovered it in 1862 The traditional mythology of the Dogon is amazing. But didn't Isaac Asimov check over the book for just such factual errors, as the publisher claims? "Perhaps (Oberg) is unaware," Temple went on, "that the differential curvature of the earth variously distorts distances shown on maps. companion" (Bullard). African Observers of the Universe: The Sirius Question. In, Ortiz de Montellano, Bernard R. 1996. When Walter van Beek studied the Dogon, he You dont have to watch too many Fantasy Channel (formerly known as the History Channel) specials on ancient astronauts before youll be told about the primitive African Dogon of Mali and their advanced astronomical knowledge bestowed, of course, by extraterrestrials. In their original findings, Griaule and Deiterlen make no comment about the Dogon knowledge of Sirius B. But that isn't the only parallel. ", Investigating Obviously, no Earth-based species was flying to other stars back then! The introduction to his second edition is so full of paranoid theorizing,2 that although it is quoted extensively and interpolated with favorable comments by Michael Bara (or possibly Richard Hoagland), the most extreme conspiracy claims are omitted.3. Predictions are often reinterpreted to fit any outcome, which makes them scientifically worthless but which can be claimed to verify the pseudo- scientific claims. with the bright star Sirius (sigu tolo, "star of Sigui"), called Where did they get this knowledge, he asks, if not from For more then 20 years, The Sirius Mystery has influenced speculation about the possibility that our forefathers came from the stars. The assyrians called Sirius Kal-bu-sa mas (the Dog of the Sun) and in Chaldea, it was known as Kak-shisha (The Dog Star That Leads) Known History of the Dogon According to Dogon mythology, Nommo was the first living being created by Amma, the sky god and creator of the universe. 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